Ep 42: Trauma-Informed Care: What to Look for in a Healthcare Provider w Dr. Jocelyne Vo

Have you ever left a doctor’s office feeling like something was… off? 

Or maybe you were told “we’re going to fix you” without anyone asking what you thought or how you felt. If so, this episode is for you.

In this deeply honest and approachable conversation, Dr. Mary sits down with holistic chiropractor Dr. Jocelyne Vo to talk about something that’s not discussed nearly enough: how to find a practitioner who truly creates a safe space for healing-and how to tell when you’re being bamboozled by marketing, ego, or rushed care.

Both Dr. Mary and Dr. Jocelyne share their insights as trauma-informed, hands-on practitioners who prioritize real connection, personalized care, and a collaborative approach to healing. They discuss what a safe space really means in healthcare, how trauma (even the unspoken kind) shows up in the body, and why true healing can’t be rushed—or outsourced.

Together, they cover:

-Why the energy of a clinic matters (spoiler: your nervous system knows before your brain does)

-How to spot red flags like high-pressure sales pitches or “I’m going to fix you” language

-The importance of longer intake sessions and slower, more intentional care

-How trauma-informed providers can hold space without rehashing trauma

-Why consent is an ongoing conversation, not a one-time checkbox

-How chronic stress and pain often show up as symptoms—and what to do about it

-The delicate dance between self-responsibility and practitioner support

-Why “body awareness” is more powerful than a list of exercises you'll forget to do

This episode is packed with practical, science-backed, heart-centered guidance for anyone looking to build a healthcare team that truly supports them. Whether you’re just starting your healing journey or you’ve seen all the specialists and are still looking for answers, this episode will help you trust yourself, listen to your body, and know what to look for in a provider.

Because healing isn’t about handing over your power. It’s about reclaiming it—with the right people by your side.


0:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
01:25 Meet Dr. Jocelyn Vo
02:51 Starting the Conversation: Safe Spaces in Healthcare
04:00 Understanding Trauma-Informed Care
06:49 The Importance of Initial Assessments
08:42 Patient Participation and Body Awareness
11:29 Chronic Pain and Holistic Approaches
20:16 The Role of Psychology in Physical Health
22:26 Building Trust with Patients
22:59 Challenges with Quick Fixes
23:51 The Importance of Listening to Your Body
27:48 Creating a Comfortable Environment
30:34 Understanding Consent in Healthcare
32:31 Trauma-Informed Care
37:16 Finding the Right Practitioner
42:57 Conclusion and Contact Information


You can learn more about Dr. Vo below:
https://www.chiropractic-healingtouch.com/
IG: @chirohealingtouch

If you have any other questions or topics you want to talk about, send me a message on Instagram. And if you loved this episode, please leave me a rating and a comment with your feedback. Please share this with your friends and loved ones, too!

I’ll see you in a week!

Transcript

0:00

Welcome back everyone in this episode, I wanted to help you all find Some ways to really know if a healthcare practitioner is the right fit for you, or whether or not you're really being bamboozled for money. This is a common issue in our healthcare world, is the consumer and people on the other side, so the patients are unaware of really where to turn. And it can be incredibly hard to know how to find the right healthcare team. I've been on the other side of this. And so in this episode, I brought in Dr. Jocelyne Vo to dive into this world and really what it means to create a safe space for healing. And we tackle a bunch of questions like what makes a healthcare environment warm and welcoming, noticing how your body reacts in certain environments or how. you feel around certain people? Do you feel calm? Do you feel tense? Is the practitioner talking at you? Are they talking with you? What type of marketing terms are they using? Is it like, I'm going to fix you or, or working together and more collaborative? These are just some basic things that we tap into in this episode. to really give you some tactile information on how to find the right practitioner. And I want to give you a little background on Dr. Jocelyn Vo. She's a holistic chiropractor in Austin who takes a personalized, empathetic approach to care. She listens deeply to her patients and tailors each session into their own unique needs. Using a gentle blend of adjustments, hands on techniques, acupressure points, muscle work, and an intuitive, energetic approach, Dr. Vo helps restore balance and alignment. Her philosophy focuses on longer, thoughtful sessions that provide better care, creating a calm, nurturing space where healing happens naturally. So, I really hope you enjoy this episode. She was the perfect person for me to reach out to because she really values creating a healing environment and is very aligned with our current practice in Austin, Texas. So, without further ado, we'll jump right in. Ready to tackle the topics that you've been curious about but never felt comfortable asking? With a straightforward, no nonsense perspective on life, blended with candid stories and a healthy dose of humor, Dr. Mary Grimberg cuts through the fluff and addresses the conversations we all need to have on TMI Talk, where no subject is too taboo. Our bodies, our minds, and everything in between. Now here's your host, Dr. Mary. Hello everyone and welcome back to TMI Talk with Dr. Mary. Today we're going to be talking about how to find a safe space for healing when you're looking for the right health care practitioners. And today I brought on Dr. Jocelyn Vo. so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm just having a good time here with Dr. Mary and Maya. So Maya stop looking at the table. So Maya is, is, she always likes to be in these episodes. So she just pops up on the table. So if you're watching the video, you'll see her. She's a little Yorkie poo and she's acting crazy. She's adorable. She's so cute. Well, one of the reasons you and I connected was because And I was looking for other practitioners who even just on their website are talking about holding a safe space, trauma informed care. And that's something that's super important. And it's something I didn't realize over the years until more the last few years of how holding space for somebody can really help with like optimal healing. So what does a safe space mean for you? So holding a safe space. Um, that's funny how Instagram and website can tell a lot about what you can expect when you go to a provider, right? Um, when I wrote that on my website and what I'm trying to get people to understand is health and wellness is a process. It's a journey. It's going to take time for someone to actually recover from the trauma or the experiences that they had. So I just wanted to make sure that the space I had, um, was welcoming, warm, um, that they had enough time to actually build a relationship with me, um, because unfortunately I feel like it's missing, um, right now in some of the medical offices that they've been through before where they feel more like a number rather than a patient. So for me, it's taking the time, making sure that they feel welcomed. Welcome and cozy before being able to open up and share the day history. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's something that we have to talk about, right? Because healthcare is still, it's still a business. Basically, you know, it's hard in healthcare, right? When you're a consumer and this is something, you know, I'm a human too. So I need, I have my healthcare needs as well. So how much of it is people are just very used to, Hey, this is what you need. Buy this now schedule a million sessions and you'll be better. Like I have the answer. Right. And Hey, that sells from an integrity standpoint. It's like. I want someone to feel safe and to know that, hey, I have your best interest, but it's hard for people to know based on like what you were saying is going to different offices, giving like astronomical quotes, you know, I mean, it's the same thing. Like when I go to like the car dealership, like one dealerships going to tell me, Hey, I need this, this and this. And then another one might tell me something completely different. I don't know the difference because I'm not a car mechanic. Yeah. So. So what are some things that people can look for and you know, we can both kind of talk about this too, because some of it's even subconscious and like in a space that, that can, that somebody can kind of feel, oh, they, they maybe notice these types of things or these asking these types of questions and. And, and knowing, hey, okay, maybe I can start leaning in and maybe trusting this person a little bit more to know, hey, what they're saying might actually be helping me. Sure. For me, one of the big, uh, green flags that you could have when you're looking for a provider, if, if they have an option of offering an initial assessment, because I feel like we need to be a good fit, but it has to be both ways. Right. I have to be a good fit for you. And I just want to make sure that you're getting the most out of a session sessions as well too. So for me, having an initial assessment or even a first visit that you can just try out the practitioners for me is a really good option instead of diving right into a treatment plan that it's going to ask you to commit. So, um, that's one of the things that I would look at, uh, if you're looking for a practitioner. So basically like first looking at Hey, can I meet this person? Can I work with this person first before I commit to maybe Like a package or a plan of care or something along those lines And then the other thing you were saying is like are you guys the right fit? Right because you know, we were talking earlier you were saying like you're not Harry Potter. So Yes, I, I just want to make sure that, um, when a patient books with me, they understand that I can help them as much as possible, but, um, I, I'm not living with you 24 seven. You going to be the one that has to do the work, uh, in order for your body to heal and your nervous system to reset. Um, uh, one good visual that one of my teacher gave me back in the day is. Pretty much your body is a plant and sometimes there's a rock on top of it. I'm the gardener coming in and removing that rock so you can just flourish, but I'm not going to be the one growing. You are. Yeah, so basically giving, you know, that's one of the main principles of like trauma informed care and, and that is the patient or the client is included. in their plan. I think, you know, basically what you're alluding to is anybody that says Hey, I'm gonna fix you. Yes. I just think I I can't like I can't we fix pain or we We fix you or anything that implies you're broken anything that implies that the power is outside of you. Mm hmm Those are some big Those are some big, like I saw something the other day with like a healthcare. So I went to go to the store and I get some new face cream, right? And I get this face cream and I read it and the, the lady's like, Hey, you've got to try this, this, this looks really great. And I'm like, do you work for this company? Like what, you know, she's like, no, I actually just tried it. It works great. And I go, I don't like that. The information basically says like a hundred percent of people did not have a reaction to this. And guess what? I returned it because I had a major reaction and I was like, any absolutes, like any absolutes are a big thing too. Like, you know, that, that you can't, like the human body, like, I mean, anything like allergies, air can have a side effect. So yeah. That, I mean, that makes total sense. So basically like having the person kind of participate in their treatment plan as well. Yes. I'm not expecting a magic solution right away because I think we live in a society where you want immediate reward. So fast. So you think that just going by, by just going once to the chiropractor, if it worked or it didn't work, you have a definite idea of why it is. Yes. But for me, you have. There, there's so many way of practicing. There's so many ways of assessing the body that maybe it didn't work for you this time with this provider. It might work with another private provider, but I will never be the one saying I can fix it all, like I know it all. Mm-hmm I think for, um, someone that works with the human body, the thing that would be most dangerous for them is to say, I, I know it all. You know, I, I can fix you because. I know better. Um, I want to stay away from that kind of speech because you're giving hope, but it could be false hope. And then you are taking away the control from them as well too. Wellness. comes from them, comes from them finding the way of maintaining that. You can take away the pain maybe by adjusting a few things here and there in the daily routines, but they have to be an active actor. Within the routine and the wellness a thousand percent in order to get those sustainable changes. I know sometimes you were like, well, it's still not better You know, I am doing these things and I'm like, are you slowing down? Are you are you slowing down and eating your food? Are you running around? With your head cut off, like all day, every day, because I'm, I, I cannot change your nervous system. I cannot help people if you're not willing to kind of do it too. And that might mean that maybe you're not in the space to do that and that's okay. But then at the same time, your body might get to this point where it's like. Yeah. And so the whole goal is to, let's try not to get to that point, but unfortunately a lot of times that's kind of the point that it does come to. And then that's when they'll come, people will kind of come in and. Which is why it's so important for you to have a compassionate approach as well too, because people come to you, they're in pain. And if on top of that, you're guilt tripping them saying, Hey. You know, that's because you do so so and so I don't think it's helping usually that doesn't help either, right? Yeah, it's it's this it's a balance of like hey, let's notice these things But also like I'm not gonna shame you exactly exactly You never know what they went through you never know what happened in the last Maybe you saw them for a year regularly, and then something happened where they couldn't come for like two months and then they show up. I don't want to be the one saying, Hey, what happened to you? Why didn't you come back? And I heard a lot of that, which is very unfortunate. So I will always welcome someone back because. So, I mean, just scheduling with me and taking the time to do it is half of the, the journey is already there, right? You already took the first step of earning your power. Yes. Yeah. And also I feel honored anytime somebody does come to me for help, right? And they'll be like, I'm so sorry, I didn't do my home exercises. So a big thing in physical therapy is, Oh, I didn't do my home exercises. Right. And Yeah. It is common in the physical therapy realm to be like, well, it's on you. You didn't get better. You didn't do your home exercises. I'm fine. You didn't do it. So it's almost like a, okay, we'll come back. Like, I mean, there's also this point where it's like when you have the time to commit, that's one thing, but. Um, I also try to work with the behavioral psychology of it because honestly, like keeping up with the same exercises every day for the rest of your life, that's also not sustainable either. I mean, let's just be real. So it's also, how do we work with people instead of like, the way I think of it is how do we teach them to be body aware so they can know like, Hey. Um, when my back pain hurts when I'm standing, well, okay, well, what can I do right in that moment? Well, maybe shift your pelvis. How does it feel when your pelvis and your mid back are kind of on top of each other versus if you're, you know, if your hips are shifted forward, right? Just kind of noticing the positions that you're in because a lot of times people are unaware of how they're walking, how they're moving, how they're sitting. Right. Um, body awareness, like you said, is crucial. Um, but it takes a while, especially if you've been used to being numb to how you feel where Pain becomes the new normal. I had a lot of people coming in and saying I have migraines But it's been the case for like the last 10 years. Oh my god, I Very sensitive to pain now because I worked to get my bony awareness to where it's at today so every time I feel Just a little bit of pain. I have my own recipe to make me feel better because I've gone through that. But for the people that have been in pain for years where it's almost normal to be in pain, it takes a while. I always say to my patients that they like a beautiful onion and you have to peel all the layers, but it takes time. It takes time because you have a lot of layers to uncover and maybe you're coming in for back pain, but What's really happening is like you said, maybe gut health is an issue and in that case, I can help you with the physical symptoms of that, but I will refer it to someone else because I have no issue saying this is not my field of expertise. Let's find you someone that knows more about it so you can just add that to your recipe of wellness. Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's, it's tuning in and when you've dealt with chronic pain for a long time, You know, sometimes I feel like there's a balance between dissociating from the pain and tuning in to, right? Cause if you focus so much on the pain, then, then it almost like kind of controlled you. So I feel like there's like a balance between, Hey, I still have to like, kind of push through this a little bit to like function, right? Cause if every time I. Had pain and I just stopped everything then I wouldn't function but it's also like like what you're saying is like the more in tune the more you can practice even just kind of Understanding like your body's signals. And so I say like a back pain is a signal You know, gut symptoms are a signal, right? And so that takes time to dive in and it's multifaceted. And I think it's hard in our society because everything is so fast paced, fast paced, but our bodies are not. That way. No. No, no. Even sitting on a computer all day long, that's not what we're supposed to do. That's not what we are designed to do. Right? So, um. But it's also a reality for a lot of people. It is. Unfortunately, it is. So we have to adapt, um, what we do and find ways to avoid that state of chronic pain. Um, but realizing that we are in pain is a first step, right? Totally. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And. Now, it feels like people are looking for a magic pill, um, to just take that away. But pain is like you said, it's an alarm system. If your house is burning, so your body is your house, right? Your house is burning, but you just take, turn that alarm off by taking a pill. Your house is still burning, right? I actually use that exact example. It's like putting the headphones on while the fire alarm's going off. Exactly. You have to acknowledge that there's something going on without feeling guilty about it, but just saying, okay. I think this is what's happening. What kind of firefighter do I need? Right and then reaching out to the one that seems most appropriate to what's happening right now This is where we step in and say, okay, I think this is what you have Maybe you should go to the acupuncturist. Maybe you should go to physical therapy. Maybe you should go to pilates or yoga um, but I Would love for people to find in us a voice that they can trust Because we have the best interest at heart and they don't feel like we're trying to sell anything to them, right? Yeah, totally. It's like I mean, we'll be honest with people. It's like hey, I think you know, this has been going on This is chronic. So Hey, it might be closer to 10 to 14 visits or so, right? Like, I can't guarantee anything, but I want you to kind of have a ballpark and maybe even more or less. Like, it just depends. I still like to give people a ballpark, but there are certain things I'm like, Hey, this is like just a few sessions. Let's work on this. But then also how can you. Maybe do you want to come in kind of for ongoing like manual therapy or tune ups or whatever that is? It's like I feel like also the way you frame it, right? Yes, because we have people that come in for wellness whether it's Like, like for dry, either like dry needling or like mobile joint mobilization or going over exercises or, you know, ongoing foundational movement and fitness will, we'll work on all of those things, but it's also the way that you word it too. Right. Like I I'm so I'm probably like over the top where I'm like, Hey. You are from the, from this standpoint, you're at, you know, you've improved this much. So to get to this next level, you know, these are, you know, these are the things that we will work on. And then, you know. As long as they're an active participant versus, you know, sometimes people do want to be told what to do, but at the same time, I'm like, Hey, we have to get you to understand what your body's telling you, which is basically your intuition. Um, I did an episode, it should be episode four, um, on how chronic illness can kind of be potentially the start of an awakening. And I say that it's more of. Hey, obviously we still treat the physical symptoms, but like what else in your life is dysregulated, right? You know, what, what's your social support system? Where are your balance? Like, are they, are, is there ongoing boundary issues? Is there any unprocessed trauma that maybe we haven't looked at too? Right. So looking at it from this whole standpoint, but. I also feel like there's people deal with a lot of shame and like their health, right? Because they know maybe what to do and then maybe they don't do it. And the way I look at that is, okay, well, what is the psychology behind that? You know, how can we work with them versus like, you know, yes, pointing a finger, um, I agree with that. Um, and maybe some of those factors, they don't even know that it's actually contributing to what's happening because for them, most of the time, they think Cairo is just cracking. So they come in for a quick relief session. But then you dive a little deeper and say, Hey, Okay, you're coming in with a lot of like stomach pain lately. Are you stressed out? And then they link the two on their own, right? Okay, and then we dive deeper into the onion saying, okay Stomach stress. What's your stressor? Is it this or this or this? Let's try to either remove it or maybe be aware of it and then work from there. So it's really a process. It's about understanding where it's coming from and it's different for every patient. So if I have five patients in a day coming in for low back pain, it could be five different reasons. A thousand percent. And it could take that session, like that patient three sessions, it could take that patient five sessions, and maybe in one session it'll be gone for one of them. But I can't know until they come back and they Feel the relief or they feel like there's been an improvement or if there's not been any relief, you have to rethink about it instead of saying, okay, this is because you did this. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Taking the blame or just reassessing how you approach that session, I think is always. And I think that's a good thing for providers saying, okay, maybe I should have done this instead of this. Let's try it out this time. But if the patient is coming back, it means that they trust you too. So you have to own that trust and you have to live up to it saying, okay. Maybe we should add that and switch that and not being a knows it all and I don't know I did it all I did all I could do and it's on them. No, you know, yeah Well, I mean some part of it too though is if somebody it's like how to work with them right how to work with their situation or maybe their circumstances and then there are some times where maybe people just Certain people, maybe they're not necessarily a good fit because they're not in that mindset, they're in the mindset. I want a quick fix. Yes. And so that's, that's where it's hard for me is when I get somebody that wants a quick fix. I'm like, I can, I can do my best. But this has been going on, like you said, like for 10 years. Mm-hmm Mm-hmm And so. I may not be able to tell that person that, and they may not, they might be like, Hey, I just, you know, I want to kind of get a, maybe go to a chiropractor where they adjust and then they leave and they go home. And they, they're, you know, not like there's anything wrong with that either, but maybe that's what they need at that time. But at the same time, Lasting relief is going to be us tuning in with our bodies, understanding our bodies, and slowing down to listen. Yes. And that's hard when the world's noisy. It is. And you never know what's coming your way as well too, right? I had a patient that was doing well. I saw her for three sessions, two weeks apart, and then I'm like, you're doing great! Let's see you in five to six weeks, and she was very confident. She was like, yeah, I think that's, it's a good frequency. I can do that. And then she came back saying, I just went on vacation for the last two weeks. I was so stressed out and I feel like this is what took me over the top. So having them realize that so we can adjust for next time and for next session for me is a big win. Totally. Yeah. Getting them to kind of. Put two and two together, too, because so much people are like, oh, I didn't do anything and my back just hurt or my Pel my hip just hurt. It's like, okay. Well, maybe you didn't do anything. But what about did something an event happen during that time? where maybe You know, there was a lot of stress. I mean, we are literally in a very stressful time in the world, right? We were just talking about this before. So we also have to be realistic as well and being patient with people because they're almost being forced to understand their bodies really fast because of the stress. Yes. And I know personally in my own health journey, I was very resistant to it. It like took cancer for me to be like, okay, well now you got to learn. Right. The Colby. So like people don't get to that point, but I do feel like as. As a society, we're getting to this pinnacle of like just constant stress, constant anxiety. People are more on antidepressants and in more pain than ever. And we have to look at it from this other point of view. Cause I mean, the other point is too, is like, you can get all the adjustments in the world. You can do all the breath work, you can eat as healthy as you want, but if, if you don't have a community, if, if, if there's, it's all work and no play, if we don't have any joy in our life. Those, those other things don't matter either, you know, like, I think so much of wellness is so much focusing on that and not, hey, how do we build a community, you know, I mean. How do we, how can we have practitioners that we trust, right? Because there's so much fear around health care practitioners now because of just the way that the market has been, I mean, and all that. Um, I do have a lot of patients just asking me questions even though it's not Related to chiropractic in general, they would just ask me questions about, I don't know, like supplements or what kind of pillows should I use? Or what kind of activity should I be doing? And I love that they feel safe enough to actually reach out because even if as a chiro, I'm not going to be selling you pillows. I can tell you what might work for you. So like you said, having that P that person that listens to you and can guide you in the right direction is a big plus. So I feel like this is where we want to build a bridge where people feel free to reach out to us and then the trust is built and then we can just. Keep on moving forward from them instead of, you know, trying to distance them and trying to sell them a bunch of things that they don't need. I feel like when trust is earned, the relationship between your patient and you as a provider could last a long, a lifetime. Yeah. I mean, uh, one thing to kind of add to with just kind of building trust is I'd say like having people just notice, like when you walk into like the healthcare facility, like just noticing, does your body feel, do you feel tense? Do you feel your heart rate increase? Or do you feel light just noticing that, right? Like, I know when I walk into your office, it's like beautiful colors, like you've taken time to decorate it. It doesn't feel like, like this clinical office. I mean, you've got a spine that's made out of wood. Yeah. I thought was so cool. Thank you. I love that. And then, you know, with, with our office, it's similar. It's like, I want people to come in and feel like, ah, like there's this aura of like, you're, you're in good hands. Yes. And it's intentional too, because it's like, just noticing that, because I think sometimes we don't notice it. I agree with your office or my office. I feel like when someone comes in, they can get a sense of how you're working on who you are as a person before actually allowing themselves to trust you as a provider. So if they come in and they seem like neons and very sterile. And personal fluorescent light. Yeah, it doesn't make them feel at ease. So it's going to be harder for you to try to have them to wind down and trust you. Well, then it's like if you think about your nervous system, right? So you've got five senses. And so I walked into a place the other day and it was like bright fluorescent lights, bright pink, bright white floors, the music, the sense. It was just so much. I could not. I could not, I was like, I have to like, just get into this appointment and just leave. Like I, I can't handle it, but I knew what it was because I've studied this stuff. Cause these are subconscious things that your body's taking in. So now add on all of that and talking about very, this wasn't a healthcare facility, but like say it was add on talking about very intimate topics. Like, you know, with pelvic pain, that's a big thing that I treat. Um, in, in. And when we're talking about those things, it's very intimate details. I mean, and you know, it's letting people know like, Hey, you know, one of the topics too, is consent as well. And like if their nervous system is already overstimulated by the environment, how to kind of, and then the questions are already like intrusive or like, that's a lot too. So all of that kind of comes into play. And You know, one of the other things that I wanted to bring up too, is like, kind of like consent, like, you know, cause people do have consent over, they're like, Oh, well, you know, it was just my doctor. So I just let them do like whatever it's like, no, you have consent to tell somebody to stop, you know, and you can always remove that consent or give it that is. That is yours, right? Yes. And so, what is, do you have any advice for somebody just based on consent and what that means to you? The main thing that I want. Our patients to, feel is they are regaining control of, um, the health and the decisions and what they want to achieve. So it's always good for us to have. A starting point and then a goal, right? So my intake forms on my first visits always longer because I want to make sure that I understand the full picture or at least the full picture of what they willing to give me at that time. And then as we go along, we can dive deeper, but, um, having that first session where they choose actually how they want to say things. Without having me to be too intrusive, but at the same time having enough for me to work on is really a fine line. It's trying to get them to be vulnerable, but still holding the control. So, it's a, it's hard, it's, it's very difficult. And then sometimes, you know, with our intuition as a provider, if they come in with a symptom and you suspecting that you don't want to be biased. You want to make them understand and get to that point without being biased, but still being compassionate and being, um, understanding. Well, I think it's so important just to assume, I mean, everybody has dealt with some form of trauma. Yes. It's just. How much of it is kind of dictating their life and how much control or how much of it is unprocessed and maybe they're unaware of, right? Cause I know that I was like, oh, I don't have trauma and I had massive trauma. I had all of the symptoms, the heightened nervous system, the random autoimmune symptoms that nobody could figure out. Always kind of on edge when somebody jumps behind me, oh my God, you know, or just catastrophizing all these kind of different things. And so. Um, even if somebody says maybe, you know, if they have a history of trauma, maybe on the intake, I don't ask for them to dive in. I'm like, Hey, you know, I think it's important at least, you know, in all aspects of healthcare, I would love it if this was a case is like, Hey, you don't have to. Tell me what you don't feel comfortable telling me, but you know, have you worked with a therapist with this? Or is this something that's kind of showing up in other aspects of your life, right? A lot of the somatic training that I took is is hey, you don't even need to know what the trauma is Just how the body is responding to it. Absolutely We can tell right? Yeah, even if they didn't say so the response from another nervous system or just seeing them in the office and having the session you can tell that there's something that happened but We don't have to know what happened. We just want you to acknowledge that, yes, it played a role in how you're feeling today and we're going to try to help you. Um, but yeah, you're right. Most of the time we don't have to know what it is. Um, and most of the time you don't even have to tell us. We, we, we know because we saw all the other symptoms around it. Um, going back to creating a safe space where they feel vulnerable, but willing to take the next step to feel better? Well, I think our clinics might be a little different where we can actually, like we can sit with the patient and see, I think it's hard when people are going in and out, like every five or 10 minutes to know, you know, like most. Healthcare practitioners are not trauma informed, unfortunately. Yes. Right? Yes. And so, basically, that's what we're kind of alluding to this whole time is like a trauma informed approach. I didn't outwardly say it, right, you know, when we were discussing earlier because so many people don't even know what that term means. They just assume, oh, well, I'm not, you know, I didn't have some big trauma, I'm not a war veteran or anything like that. It's like, there's enough. Traumas in this world that aren't the the ones that we typically think of that can be affecting us too But you know signs of that can be so many things like, you know like we were just saying is like jumpiness or on edge and constantly on edge or Ongoing anxiety ongoing depression. It can be ongoing gut issues. It can be ongoing pain. I mean All of these different things, unable to make eye contact with somebody, maybe, maybe if you can before, right? And then maybe after the, um, experience happened, maybe the lack of eye contact, how they hold themselves. So there's like these little subtle cues, but I unfortunately don't think it's like a, um, a well recognized, um, skill set. Or like, not, maybe not skill set, well recognized, but in our practices, I mean, like, You're very intuitive. I didn't realize I was intuitive until the last few years where people kept telling me. And I was like, are you sure you like just bullshitting me? You know? And so I realized, Oh, okay. I actually can. Feel that too. But I can also look and kind of see like how somebody is holding themselves and how they're reacting. Yes. It's because you take the time. And once again, it's all part of it, all part of the experience that for me is really crucial as a provider. If you don't take the time. There's no way in 10 minutes I'm going to like, no, there's no way, right? So there's no way you can just compact that whole patient's life into 10 minutes sessions because it takes me. 10 to 15 minutes to unwind the body and get the nerve system to where I want it to be before I can actually adjust, you know? Yeah. So that's one of the other tips that I would give to, um, whoever's looking for a provider. Try to look for longer sessions. 10 minutes as a Carol, I can do it. But maybe if this is what you're looking for, once again, it's for me, I just don't feel like I. It could unpeel enough layers for you to actually improve. So, um, well, I think just kind of on the other end of that, if they're like the initial intake, right, I think, cause you can have followups that are shorter, but if like the initial intake is like 10 minutes or something, that's really hard to do that. So kind of. I'd say it is to kind of clarify that it's like those longer initial sessions, would you say? And then enough where that practitioner really understands your health as well. Yes. Um, We'll start off for those longer and then sometimes we'll go down to like, sometimes people want 30 minutes or things like that, but I can't do a 30 minute eval. Like I cannot do it. If I do it, it's a disservice to that person and I don't feel good about it. I need to sit and understand what's going on. I need to know, Hey, what are some other factors kind of occurring with that as well? But, um, so I'd say in summary, a lot of, you know, what we're talking about is. Holding a safe space, just knowing, you know, with looking at practitioners, like how they're, they're speaking to you. Are they including you in the conversation? Is it more of a one way dynamic, like, Hey, I'm going to fix you or Hey, is this a team dynamic? I know it can be tempting to want to go to somebody that wants to fix you air quotes, but the reality is, is there's. The human body is so incredibly multifaceted and complex that like, there's no fixing. It's more of a ongoing evolving process. And so you can start even understanding and how marketing terms are used to and knowing like, Hey, is this the right practitioner or not? So that might be a good first step there. Um, also noticing like the environment, maybe when you meet the person, like how are you feeling in your body? Are you feeling tense? Are you feeling calm? Um, What's the environment like? Do you feel overstimulated or not? Like, what are some of those, you know, things to kind of look into? And then overall, just knowing like, hey, it's a, it's a combined approach, you know, evidence based medicine is the practitioner. Experience the person in front of you and research. So research and your experience mean nothing if the person doesn't want to do it. And that's where the consent comes in, right? So you have consent to say no or yes and, you know, all of those things. If the provider allows space for that, which is what we try to do, um, is making sure that we include the patients in our sessions. It's not, I'm doing things on you. It's asking questions, making sure that they understand what you're doing, because offering your back to a stranger feels very vulnerable, right? Oh my gosh, totally. And especially if they're going through it with some tools, or like just So, I'm going to just adjust you without asking what's happening. For me, the first session is always longer because you have to let them know what you're doing even though they have an idea of what you're doing. Um, it's always good to say, hey, what we're going to do is you're going to take a deep breath and then as you excel, I'm going to adjust you. You might hear a sound. You have to guide them through that. Explaining what's going to happen. Exactly. So they're not just on edge waiting for it to happen. They know exactly what's going to happen. After it happens, like how was it? How do you feel? Always offering the choice. Um, I have a lot of patients that hate manual adjustment. So I don't, I don't do that. They hate the sound of cracking. I don't do that. Some of them prefer to use the activator. So that's what I do. Some of them love being adjusted and love being crack and hearing it. So I just adapt my sessions to whatever they like, um, which I think you have to, once again, find the fine line between what they need and what they prefer. If it's a lot, it's aligning. It's that's great. It's, yeah, it's a great session for both of us. Right. I think, you know, when we're, when you're looking for chiropractors or physical therapists or psychotherapists, you know, you can start kind of using a lot of these tools to kind of help guide you where it gets tougher is when you're like truly deep in Western medicine with surgery and all that stuff, because it's like. Like, gosh, I almost feel like it's an either or thing, you know, like the bedside manner. It's like, I'm going to be honest, I'd rather have less bedside manner and like a really good surgeon, you know? And so when I think about these things, it's also more of like these approaches. It's from like a wellness standpoint, like the practitioners that are not life and death, like ours are, are not life or death, but more of, Hey, you know, there is a balance when we start going realistically, when you dive into the craziness of the healthcare industry itself. I mean, you still want someone that's respectful, but at the same time. Maybe they're awkward in their bedside manner, but they're a really good like surgeon, you know There's things that to weigh pros and cons with that too. Like I want my spine if I need spine surgery I mean, I want the best. Yes, like not somebody that can like yeah Yeah, like I don't want you by my bedside if I can't walk after you know, like so Just something to consider with all of that. And so, how can people find you if they'd like to work with you or reach out? Uh, you can find me at Chiropractic Healing Touch in North Austin, close to the Domain and the Arboretum. I, uh, I am on Instagram. And you can find me on my website as well, too. Cool. Well, we'll link all that below. Again, she's in Austin, Texas with me as well. And thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. That was really fun. It was. It was. You've been listening to TMI Talk with your host, Dr. Mary Grinberg. Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. To learn more about Dr. Mary, head on over to drmarygrinberg. com. And make sure to follow Dr. Mary at DrMaryPT on all social channels. To learn more about Dr. Mary's integrative practice for pain relief in Austin, Texas, head on over to resilient rx. com. Thanks for listening!